Lux Powwow Session With Abhinav Dewan, Wine Ambassador at Pernod Ricard Winemakers

Pernod Ricard, A French company, is quite famous for its alcoholic beverages. It is the world's second-largest wine and spirits seller, which has headquarters in Paris, France. Henri-Louis Pernod founded his distillery, Maison Pernod Fils, in 1805. Paul Ricard discovered Ricard, in 1932, when he fulfilled his quest for the divine taste, the purity of the anise inspired his recipe. Pernod Ricard originated from the association of these two French anise-based spirits companies in 1975. 

Being in the global wine and spirits sector for four decades now, Pernod Ricard witnessed steady growth in the last ten years. In the previous two decades, the company has made significant acquisitions. It owned the British-based rival Allied Domecq PLC, in 2005. Until 2006, it added brands like Chivas Regal in its exotic beverages collection. Pernod Ricard acquired the Swedish-based V&S Group, the maker of Absolut Vodka, in 2008.

According to Alexandre Ricard, chairman of Pernod Ricard, India is the second-largest market for Pernod Ricard globally. It is only behind the US and more significant than the home market, France.

Pernod Ricard India (P) Ltd. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Pernod Ricard SA. It is a leading multinational alcohol beverage company that presents the best alcoholic beverages to its consumers.

Pernod Ricard India takes exceptional care of social, economic, and sustainability in all the major states. The company takes initiatives on environmental conservation. And also work on integrated projects for Water Resource Management. 

The LuxuryAbode group invited Abhinav Dewan, Wine Ambassador at Pernod Ricard Winemakers, at the 7th session of LuxPowwow. Nidhi Masand, head of corporate affairs at LuxuryAbodeWorld, spoke with Abhinav. Let's know what inspired Abhinav to join the rich wine culture and lots more.

Nidhi Masand - Abhinav Dewan

Abhinav Dewan, A wine enthusiast, educator, and sommelier, serves as the wine ambassador at Pernod Ricard, India. He spent two years in Adelaide, the wine capital in Australia. After completing his Master's degree in the wine business, Abhinav joined the Pernod Ricard winemakers in Sydney, Australia, in 2018. He has hosted several wine tasting dinners in 9 countries. Now, he has been working on building a vibrant wine culture in India. We welcome you on Luxpowwow Abhinav!

Could you please tell us about yourself and your journey till now. What inspired you to get into wines and spirits?

I am basically from Delhi and completed my graduation from Bangalore. Back then, from school to college, I was a gamer. So I started my professional career with brands like Playstation, Xbox, and Electronics Arts Fifa. Not being from the hotel management background, I did not know how to get ahead with wine and spirits. In India, It is a funny situation; for example, in Delhi, you have to be 25 to consume liquor. While I remembered the day when I got into wine and spirits, one of my old friends from college posted on the post I shared for this session. It stated, “It all started with the bartending course in college.” There was a little stint of bartending course when I was 18. Which indeed was pretty more than any other spirit. That's when I started thinking that this is something that has to happen. In 2015, I found my Master's course in wine and management in Australia. Since then, it has been the one-way road.

When I do see your Insta page, I saw you have a lot of cocktails as well. Is that something that interests you as well?

The whole story of wine started with bartending. I used to make a lot of cocktails. I used to be a bartender for all family gatherings and parties with friends. So my interest was always there. I just wanted to get into it. Now, with cocktails and wines, one of my favorite things to lose myself is the wine cocktail. I try to find new recipes on how I can mix wine and cocktails and make wine cocktails. This blend is one of the most upcoming trends globally.

I agree, and I even tried one of your cocktails, The New York Sour, and that's amazing.

Happy to know that.

Could you tell us more about the company where you are a wine ambassador, the Pernod Ricard and its wine portfolio in India?

Sure, Pernod Ricard is a large company. It is one of the most extensive wine and spirits companies in the world and headquartered in France. The division I worked for is the Pernod Ricard winemakers, Sydney. I started my journey there. You know, Australia is an open market for wines. You would have heard of Jacob's Creek; it is one of our brands sponsoring Australia Open. Then, I moved to Dubai, where the portfolio was slightly smaller. We had seven brands there. I spent over a year, and that was a sort of entirely dark market. You had to work under the table. Then, I moved to India because my dream is to spread a wine culture in India. Here, we primarily work for three wine brands, namely, Jacob Creek from Australia, Campo Viejo from Spain, and slightly premium brand Brancott Estate from Newzealand. We have a champagne brand called G.H. Mumm from France. These are the four brands that I represent in India.

Which brand do you think does the best out of the four brands that you represent?

Oh sure, In terms of reach, Jacob Creek is one of the leading brands not only in India, but it is the leading brand in the world. Before the lockdown, we had the program running with Masterchef Australia, where we did six events in Delhi, Bombay, and all other major metro cities. In terms of marketing also, at present, Jacob Creek is one of the tastes that take the top spot. Campo Viejo is more of a lifestyle, artistic kind of brand offering. With that, we will associate ourselves with platforms like the Indian Art Fair.  Brancott Estate became a more premium sitting, where we target more fine dining in premium standards.

We are moving to our next question. It is related to food, which comes with wine because you mentioned Masterchef Australia. We know that there are various wines which go best with a certain kind of food. Which wine do you think suits the Indian palette the most, and why?

Alright, this is a fascinating question because the Indian palette works differently. I remember once there was a wine tasting in Australia, and I came across Riesling wine. A lot of people consider this wine sweet. That was a little sweet also. When I tasted it, the person handling the counter looked at me and said that the wine would go well with spicy curries. Australians assume that a bit of sweetness in the wine would balance the spiciness in the dish. But I told her she might enjoy this wine with spicy curries, but I like big red wines with spicy curries. I love the explosion of sweetness, spiciness, and all the complex flavors. When I go to the Indian market, I talk to wine enthusiasts, professionals, or consumers how well their wine goes with Indian food. Suppose someone asks which wine would go best with the Indian food palette. I always advise, “If you are serving to someone who likes spicy things, serving Shiraz, Red cabin wines, and Merlot, with things like Rogan josh, Daal Makhani, and Rajma would be great.” But if people don't like spicy food, then go with low alcoholic light wines like Sauvignon blanc or Chardonnay. These wines work as an offset to all the spices we take.

As you said, the lady who met in Australia told someone from India would like sweet wine, when you see masses that prefer sweet wines and tastes when it comes to the Indian market. Why is that?

When we talk about sweet wine, there is a gap in what we call a sweet wine. Sweet wine comes under a dessert wine category. It's an entirely different category, which can have sugars of 200-300 grams per liter. Therefore, sweet wine refers to a dessert wine. This category is lovely and known as a sweet wine. I get a lot of questions from people on my Instagram to recommend a red wine or a white wine that has a bit of sweetness. My response is like most of the wines you find in the market are dry wines. The term dry here refers to wine that does not have sugar. It's just a fruitiness of wine that you perceive as a sweetness. So when people say I like sweet wines, they are referring to fruity wines and not sweet wines because sweet wine is a dessert wine category.

Yes, because they are full-bodied if I am not mistaken.

Yes, It sticks to the glass more, slightly ethical, and full-bodied. It has a higher density. You can experiment at home. By swirling a glass of wine and swirling a glass of sugar syrup, you will realize that sugar syrup is much denser. A similar thing happens with wine.

Wow! That was amazing. I do like sugar wines personally. Knowing about this is something an eye-opener to me. Moving on, this is a fundamental question. What is the concept behind aging the wine?

Alright, Aging the wine could be two things. One is aging while it's in Oak barrel. Another is aging the wine once we keep it in the bottle. As far as wine oak barrel is concerned, the whole objective is to smoothen the wine because it is harsh at that time. It will also add flavors like Vanilla, Coconut, toasts, smoke, nutmeg, or other different spices. This thing generally happens in the case of red wines, not for white wines. When we consider aging the bottled wine, suppose people take out a bottle of wine in 2040 and say it is from 2020, it means that they kept wine in a bottle for 20 years. Another way to explain this is, you can see the age written on the Single Malt whiskey bottle. When it says, 12 or 18 years old, whiskey will remain 12 or 18 years old even after 100 years. In the case of wine, you see a specific year mentioned, which is the vintage of the wine. This year refers to the year when they harvest grapes to make that wine. This fact ensures that wine is a living liquid. We age certain wines to add flavors. You can observe crystals formed or new components developed when you age the wine. Also, we can not age certain wines. You might have heard that the red wine age is more as compared to white wine. Aging the wine makes it smoother and more vibrant. But this works for certain wines as some wines should be consumed young and fresh./p>

Does that also depend on the terrain where it is grown, whether it should be aged or not?

No, not that much on the terrain because you can age the wines of any country. You can have wines that are supposed to be consumed at a young age and fresh from any country. What it depends on is what the winemaker wants to achieve. If a winemaker wants to make premium wine, they have to store that for 10, 20, or even 40 years. There are a few things that a wine needs, like the wine, must have the right amount of acidic level, which comes from fruit. 

Another thing is tannins specifically for wine. Tannins are what we get from the skin of grapes. There is a sort of dryness and astringency you can feel when you drink aged red wine. It does not depend on the country or terrain from where a wine comes.

Okay, So the next question is somewhat related to certain wines that have a limited shelf life. Is it true, If yes, why? Because we do notice that there are wines when we open them, we need to finish them in one go. Why is that?

A lot of people call me and ask; they have opened the bottle of wine and how long they can keep that. I say, just drink it. I understand it's quality over quantity. I am not sure about the percentage, but the majority of wines should be consumed young. We heard a lot of time that wine gets better with age, but that is true only for a small percentage of wines produced in the world. Also, there are fun facts like most wines are consumed within 45 minutes of purchase. Not many people buy those wines and keep them with their sellers, or in cupboards, and then open them after years. Most of the people purchase wines for their dinners and weekend parties. As far as the wine's shelf life is concerned or the recommended period of drinking the wine, wines are never going to harm your health or become poisonous. For instance, there is a white grape variety called Sauvignon Blanc that does not benefit from aging. If you ask for its recommended drinking period, I will say you should drink it within two to three years. Then, you can enjoy its freshness and intensity that a winemaker wanted to provide.

On the other hand, if you want to drink Shiraz, you need to spend a couple of thousands on that bottle. I will say, don't drink that in the first three years but keep it to drink between 3rd to 8th year, depending on how age-worthy it is. So you get the best wine taste if you follow the recommended period. When you over age the wine, it will start losing its freshness, aromas, and flavors. It's going to be good but not great.

Does this apply for vintage also, right?

Yes, right.

So if we talk about Kabinett Riesling, I know it's a great variety. It has a lot of tannins, acid, and I want to get the best out of it. So I would keep it with my sellers for at least two to three years before I open it. If I want to store a wine a bit more, then I will wait for a few more years. That's only possible for wines where you pay; these wines have a premium attached to them. On the other hand, if you are going to buy a wine from the entry to mid pricing range, those wines need to be consumed young. Then, you don't need to be bothered about aging them. 

Wow! That's insightful.
How does one decide which type of cheese goes best with which wine?

Alright, the never-ending debate. Pair simple cheeses with pure wines and complex cheeses with complex wines. So if I pick, say, Camembert, or Brie, I like them for their texture, not for taste. They are creamy, and I enjoy them with acidic white wine. I would take these cheeses with the wines that don't have complex and intense flavors. With simple cheese, I will consume sparkling wines. They could be champagne or Cabernet Sauvignon, which are low-medium in alcohol and have a lot of acidity, freshness, zing, and pep in them.

On the other hand, if I am getting aged cheddar or smoked cheddar that has nuances of smoke or duskiness in their texture, I will pair such cheeses with the juicy Merlot or a full-bodied Australian Shiraz. Simple with simple and complex with complex guidelines I follow here.

You mentioned both the cheeses brie and cheddar. These are my favorites. Yes, they go well, specifically with the Lambrusco wine.

So you have spent some time in Italy.

Yes, I was in the wine capital, and I did make the most of it. 

That's great. Italy is an excellent place for wine.

I love Tuscany specifically because of Vineyards. We are moving on to our next question. What is the significance of the 5 S's when it comes to a wine tasting?

It is a simplified version of how we taste wine. Coincidentally, all start with S, but it's really about activating your senses. So the 5 S's are: ‘Seeing' the wine like I am looking at wine and trying to see what color it has. Most red wines are young and start with rich purple kinds of color, and they slowly lighten up. For white wines, the opposite happens, they darken up. So just by looking at wines, you can tell how old they are or what kind of grape variety they have. Then comes ‘Swirling' the wine. It is swirling the wine in your glass. It's just about releasing the aromas. Swirling allows the wines to interact with oxygen and express itself. The third S is for ‘Smelling' the wine. A lot of wine experts do not have to taste the wine; they just smell it and identify. Now comes ‘Sipping' it is when we check the acidic level, tannins, and alcohol along with flavors, Of course. 

When I ask people about the last S among 5 S's during dinner or gathering, they say swirling. I say no if you are at parties, you would probably gulp it down. Otherwise, one would be spitting. If the taste is different, you will spit. 5th S denotes ‘Savouring.' Savouring the wine is about just not putting it in your throat. Let the wine swirl in your mouth for a few seconds and try to remember the taste. Try to think where the wine is from and what is the grape variety of that wine. That makes you more aware of the wine taste. I have to add one more S beside the discussed 5 S's. This S will denote ‘Sharing,' and this can bring you more experience as we taste things differently. Sharing the bottle of wine with different people can enhance the old wine-drinking experience.

So you have added one more S for me and the audience today. 

Yes, so we go from See, Swirl, Smell, Sip, Savour, and Share. Don't forget, “share.”

Great, Also how long is a wine bottle good after opening it?

Every morning I wake up, and I have similar questions in my inbox. So many people drink wine and leave it open. Then they say wine goes bad once it's opened, Right? So go for hardly three to five days, that is a general rule. It depends on the wine, sometimes two to five days. And a maximum of five days. I don't like to push it to more than five days or a week. When I go for a wine tasting in restaurants and hotels, they have their policies. In 5 star hotels, they have stricter policies for what they can serve to the consumer. If you are drinking the wine, it would be three to five days for any wine. Make sure you keep the bottle in the fridge when you open it. If you are sharing it with friends, then maybe two to three days. If you are a consumer, it is maximum one day. If your bottle is open for more than 24 to 48 hours, you are not supposed to serve it to the consumer. And if you are serving it to your girlfriend/boyfriend, or spouse, make sure it's a freshly opened bottle. Or else, you will be in trouble. 

Does the room temperature make a difference for the place where you are?

Even if you have not opened the wine bottle, it is advisable to keep it in the fridge for both red or white wine. In India, we do not follow the concept of room temperature. You can not serve a red wine at room temperature in Delhi in June or July, because it is around 35-degree celsius then. Room temperature here basically means 14 to 16 degrees Celsius maximum. I would say 14, ideally. If you have not opened the bottle, you still need to keep it away from the hot areas. Many people in India have their designated wine fridges and sellers. If I have to give tips, I would recommend not to keep the wine bottle in the kitchen because of the temperature, as it keeps on fluctuating. Also, do not store your wine bottle in the fridge because its prolonged storage there may damage the wine. Keep the bottle away from direct sunlight, and do not keep it on the window or amid intense yellow light. The cold, dark, and dry place is the best place to store the wine. Once you open it, put it in a fridge.

In your personal opinion, which country is the best for wine tasting?

Ever Since the time, people ask me what your best point is, I always say the next point. It's about we want to try more because the possibilities are endless. I don't go because of the countries. The world already knows Europe is the first place for popularized wines. Mediterranean region, which is now Georgia, is the place where experts figured out the wine. In France and Spain, we popularized it, and now we have countries like Newzealand, Australia, the USA, South Africa, Argentina, and Chile. India and China are also getting into the picture. According to my personal experience, when I go to restaurants and see wine lists, they have whole sections for regions of Italy like Tuscany in Italy, the Bordeaux, and burgundy in France. When you see the two newer countries, you do not see them getting a lot of space in beverage lists. There will be three pages for France and one page for Australia, Newzealand, and the USA. That is something I would like to change because even these countries are making excellent wines now. I go as per the variety of grapes available in the country. If you do a bit of homework and understand how different grape varieties work in different climates, then it will be easier for you to order wine when you go to restaurants. 

For instance, Shiraz is a French grape variety Syrah, so if I am getting a bottle of Syrah from France, it is good. I know Australia gave it the second name Shiraz. They make excellent Shiraz. So go with Australia. If I am going for Pinot Noir, it is a delicate grape variety that does not need too much sunlight. It is a delicate darling of the wine world. Again, it comes from France. When I order this one, I choose countries with a cold climate. So I decided Newzealand as this country has cold weather. If I have to select between Newzealand and South Africa for this, I prefer Newzealand as I know they make excellent Pinot Noir. It's all about getting to know your grape variety, understanding their characteristics, and climates that best suit them. If you know the climates of different winemaker countries, you will never go down with your choice. 

This question is for wine lovers. Could you tell us five noble grapes for the red wines from Bordeaux?

It has been a long time in my wine education and career when I didn't know about the five noble grapes. Even now, If you type on google for noble grape varieties without typing Bordeaux, it gives six popular or ten popular grape varieties. If I am not wrong, there was a T.V. show on Amazon Prime, where they mentioned Noble grape varieties from Bordeaux. They had a conversation about which wine to put in the wedding. Then I thought, wow, this seems to be relevant. But maybe I am going to break the myth right now. The original five grape varieties from Bordeaux are Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Malbec, and another not so popular one Petit Verdot. We don't find it as a single variety in India and use it in blends. France had the whole Bordeaux concerns in the late 18th or 19th century. They uprooted and replanted everything. When that happened, one of the noble grape varieties lost its importance. Now, Malbec is in Argentina, where we look. As far as the other grape varieties are concerned, if we divide Bordeaux by the river flowing in the middle, you have left bank and right bank. The Cabernet Sauvignon dominates left bank wines, and Merlot dominates the right bank. So among Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, the two popular ones are Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot.

But it remains like a place that you may like to visit for wine.

Yes, If you talk about premium wine regions in the world, Bordeaux appears at the top of the chart. There is no debate in that. These grape varieties work there. Therefore, they call that whole variety as five noble grape varieties.

Even though there is a surplus choice of alcoholic beverages in India, do you think the Indian market still needs to be further educated about the matter and market of wine and spirits?

Indian market is one of the hotspots; there is remarkable growth. The percentage of growth is quite good. The only thing is that we are sitting in a small place. If you look at some European countries, they have per capita consumption of more than 12 liters. This estimate shows drinking more than a liter of wine from a mug. In India, this per capita consumption is lesser than a teaspoon of wine only. There are only a few pockets, and these people like to know about wines. I still consider myself in the learning phase and trying to expand my knowledge. My idea is to bring that knowledge and work as the link between industry and consumers in India. 

I want that drinking whiskey before dinner culture to go away and bring drinking wine with your dinner to come in. It has been a year since I have been working in India. We are doing events, hosting shows, wine tasting, and doing online sessions about wine and imparting knowledge. I realized that there is a huge demand for brand knowledge and origin knowledge. It feels like shared joy as people like to learn about wines. There is a long way to go. As far as cocktails are concerned, wine cocktails are the next big thing that may come to the Indian market. I dream that consumers get aware of wine culture. They can influence what importers, distributors, and restaurants have been doing. Then we can start calling the Indian market as the mature market. Currently, there are only a few professionals who decide what happens in the market. Once consumers also get aware of the same, they can influence the decisions of those professionals as well. It is my dream for now.

As you beautifully said, “Culture of having wine with your dinner,” I can't wait for that day to come to India.

Yes, admittedly, I think we have all seen a heavy whiskey real influence. It is excellent for people to understand. It creates a beautiful explosion by pairing wines with food. Once people start exploring that themselves, I am sure that the market is going to change drastically.

Before moving to our last question, I would like to ask a few questions we had from our audience.

Sure.

Is wine a luxury? Is it right to invest in fine wine?

Yes, wine is a luxury, within the wine, there is one segment which shows luxury and another shows it is more like FMCG. That's how I would classify it as. Wine investment only makes sense if you are knowledgeable and want to get into a picture for the long term. If you are thinking about ten years, you would probably not get good returns on investments on your wine purchases. If you are looking at decades of investing in sellers, buying hundreds of bottles and waiting for like 20, 30, 40 years, that's when you may get a significant return. Otherwise, just invest in a good bottle for your drinking pleasure.

Is there any remedy for acid reflux after red wine? Please Suggest.

Oh, any remedies. I hope you drink responsibly and drink appropriate quantities. I also advise taking some food with that. Sometimes high acid wines may give you burning sensation; you just need to pair that with food. I usually pair acidic food with acidic wines. Things like salads or anything that has lemon squeezed on it can work with such wines. You can also pair wines with fatty, oily, or creamy food. They work well with acidic wines. I used to eat a lot of oysters, which is rare in India. It could be your local brewer, creamy beer cheese, fancy cheeses, fried chicken, or tandoori dishes that you like. Yes, with fatty food, you can reduce that reflux.

What is the optimum temperature for serving wines, according to you?

Alright, we start it with sweet wines. You can serve them at 6 to 7 degrees Celsius, which is slightly above your refrigerated temperature. When we talk about sparkling wines, serve them at 7 to 8 degrees celsius. Again they are super chilled. You can see the water dripping at the side of the bottle. If we consider white wine, Sauvignon Blanc, serve it slightly cold than denser white wines like Semillon. For instance, You can serve Sauvignon Blanc at 8 to 12 degrees celsius, while you can present the Semillon at 10 to 12 degrees celsius. Again when it comes to red wine Sauvignon, you can serve it at 10 to 12 degrees celsius. You can serve old red wines at 12 to 14 degrees max. 14 to 16 degrees celsius is the warmest temperature to serve the wine. If you are from India and you do not have a wine seller, make sure you put red wine in a fridge for some time before serving it. 

Which is your favorite wine brand?

Alright, when you are out in the market for shopping, you think you may pick up the bottle of Jacob Creek, Campo Viejo, Brancott Estate, or G.H. Mumm champagne. Proudly brought to you by Pernod Ricard.

Great excellent marketing for yourself.

Yes, I am staying true to the brand.

Moving on to our last question, what are your thoughts about the Luxpowwow initiative and the Luxury Abode?

Oh, to be honest, this got me excited. The first time, we got in touch, and now I can apologize as I took some time to get back to you. I was excited to get on board. I spent some time checking all the past videos that you have done. They were related to luxury watches and scotch brands and were delightful. I found this platform excellent because the luxury market and consumers are ever-changing. You need to bridge that gap and be able to connect with people who have stories to share. We, the spokesperson, are experienced ones from the industry. We come and interact with the audience and share our stories. This move makes the audience more aware. I genuinely believe that in today's world, people who seek luxury products are looking more than just a product. It's not just about brand engagement, but about brand stories and experiences. That's why I say we are in the age of experiential marketing. LuxPowwow is a great platform, and I am happy to be a part of it.

Thank you so much for your insights today. It was lovely having you on board with us. Also, Thankyou so much for Powwowing with us. You are such a great wine sommelier, Abhinav. 

It is an absolute pleasure, and I enjoyed today's session. I loved talking about wine all the time. You have been a great host. Thanks a lot. Take Care and All the best for what's coming next.

Got to watch the complete Lux Powwow episode with Abhinav Dewan, Wine Ambassador at Pernod Ricard Winemakers.